A Plate of Ham and Eggs

Maria Titizian

BY MARIA TITIZIAN

Involvement and commitment are two words that are sometimes used interchangeably. If you’re involved, that means you’re committed. If you’re committed, that means you’re involved. Or does it? Thinking about these terms, I was reminded of a story someone told me not so long ago. It was about a pig and a chicken, or a plate of hams and eggs.

Think about a round white plate. On it, imagine a couple of scrambled eggs and a few slices of ham. The chicken provides the eggs – maybe somewhat painful to lay an egg, but after the exercise, the chicken survives. The pig provides the ham, the pig is the ham, the pig is dead. So, while the chicken has given something of herself, she continues living, the pig isn’t as lucky. The chicken is involved, the pig is REALLY committed. To be fair, although the chicken is merely involved and the pig is really committed (or sentenced, if you like), both are needed to produce the dish. In this scenario, the rooster is not part of the equation really; its role is not very productive. But that’s another story for another day.

There is a whole theory behind this metaphor that has to do with something known as agile project management or agile software development but this is not the point of this particular story either.

For me, the plate of ham and eggs or the story of the pig and the chicken is a metaphor for us, our nation. Excuse me for the expression but the Diaspora is the chicken, the rest of us living in Armenia are the pigs. Sometimes, we’re not very good at being pigs but then again, the Diaspora seems to be a renewable resource that keeps eating its own eggs.

If we look deeper and think harder, we will see that we are a multi-functional group of people playing for the same team. We need involvement and commitment. We have both, so what are we doing wrong?

If you are involved, that means you’re providing the egg. Who are you providing it for? For the self-perpetuating notion of an ill-defined or confused identity of being Armenian somewhere other than in the Republic of Armenia? If you are the pig, what are you sacrificing yourself for? Once we have the answers to these questions then we might be able to conceive of a holistic development strategy that would empower the homeland and sustain the Diaspora.

In the past year, Armenia’s sovereignty has been subordinated to quick-fix, irresponsible and dangerous deals and agreements. President Serzh Sarkisian’s decision to navigate the country toward the Russian-led Customs Union and the recent Russian-Armenian natural gas deal that was pushed through parliament has been a severe blow to the country. The “involved” segment of the nation has largely ignored the problem, while the “committed” segment is only half-baked.

Armenia has now accelerated the process to streamline its legislation and customs regulations to adhere to the Customs Union. It really isn’t even a Union, its membership in Russia’s customs framework. I would bet my life that most people don’t even know what the so-called “union” entails or means for the country. Our membership in the Customs Union might be a good thing, but because there has been no transparency or accountability in the process, we don’t know and we are now being “asked” to trust a regime (not an administration or government but a regime) that has lost the trust and backing of its people. How will our membership affect the very small industrial complex of our country? How will the country protect is producers and exporters? Will membership mean higher costs for food and clothes for consumers? Will it encourage industry or decimate it? These are questions that will be answered when it might be too late. Also, do we really have any security guarantees that are being touted by many as one of the main reasons for Armenia’s membership in the Customs Union? How will our membership deter Russia from selling billions of dollars of armaments and military hardware to Azerbaijan? How will Russia, our big brother, deter continued Azerbaijan aggression on the Line of Contact and on the state borders between Armenia and Azerbaijan? Maybe the Diaspora feels secure that Russia will rush to Armenia’s aid if war broke out…let me tell you, Armenians will rush to Armenia’s aid.

Since 2011, the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources continually said that the cost of Russian natural gas imports had not gone up. By the end of 2013, we learned that the regime had been secretly subsidizing those costs to ensure victory in three consecutive elections (parliamentary, presidential, Yerevan city) and had amassed a staggering $300 million debt. The regime was forced to sell its remaining 20 percent share in Armrusgazprom to the Russian natural gas giant Gazprom. And not only. The highly controversial deal sets conditions that are really unbelievable. All current and future Armenian governments, until 2044, cannot raise taxes or make any changes to the regulatory environment for the now-Gazprom-owned network. Additionally, Armenia must ensure that domestic gas prices are set at a price which allows Gazprom to recoup 9 percent of its capital investment. According to the deal, the next five presidents of Armenia must adhere to these conditions stipulated in the agreement.

Let us return to the story of the chicken and the pig. While the pig is dilly-dallying, not sure if it wants to sacrifice itself to protect its sovereignty, the chicken has left the conversation.

We need to get back to the table.

Authors

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54 Comments

  1. Armenian said:

    Unfortunately, some in our nation don’t see anything wrong with selling out our sovereignty for decades to come; on the contrary, it’s one of the best things to happen to them…

    It’s funny– I bet the Ra-Ra-Russia cheerleaders in Camp Armenia are probably doing so in the comfort of their homes in a Western country, enjoying the fruits of life in a Western society, all while condemning everyone in Armenia to a fruitless and useless future with Russia. Armenians lack the ability to look far into the future and try to improve things with long-term solutions.

    • Harutik said:

      Washington’s cyber-warriors are everywhere these days. Please save us your nonsense about the West and the suicidal drug called Democracy. We have seen what democracy has done to places like western Europe, Serbia, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Ukraine and Syria. I think even the most ignorant ones in our society are now beginning to see the political West as a threat to humanity. God bless Russia. God bless Armenia. And may God help us preserve Russo-Armenian relations against all enemies both foreign and domestic.

      • Armenian said:

        Wow, so much hysteria against the West here. Although I’m starting to think that you and the other Russophiles are all one person, luckily you [all] probably live in a country that allows you to say such vile things without getting in trouble for them, and express yourself without having to answer to anyone else. I’m glad you feel comfortable enough to come and enjoy your life in a society that’s “dangerous for humanity”; one that you were most likely educated in, live in, and one that has probably given you much of what you have today.

        Your mindset is incredibly miamit. How could you have that much faith in someone other than yourself? What is wrong with you, honestly? When Russia takes a massive crap on us, then we’ll see who’s going to preserve our beloved “Russo-Armenian relations against all enemies, foreign and domestic”. You probably couldn’t handle an Armenia governed by people loyal to her national interests, so therefore, you don’t need to partake in it. You have no right to sign away Armenia because you think we’re too stupid as a nation to govern ourselves. Luckily for you, Russia is recruiting many Armenians to improve its peripheries. I’m sure you’ll find a very lucrative career in Siberia, where you can personally strengthen Russo-Armenian relations by doing back-breaking work and [maybe] getting compensated for it on time.

        • Sarkis said:

          Harutik’s response was brilliant. Your juvenile statements like “When Russia takes a massive crap on us, then we’ll see” are petty and indistinguishable from the talking points on turkish and azeri websites.

          • Armenian said:

            He posts that same comment left and right; there’s nothing “brilliant” about advocating for nation-wide servitude and the inability to make one’s decisions for themselves by signing away yourself to someone else. My comments are not juvenile– maybe a bit callus in my wording, but the core message is true:it’s only a matter of time until we start to reap the consequences of your totally unrealistic world-view that Russia is going to save us because we’re nice to them, or because of this WWI-era “Orthodox Brotherhood” that nobody bases their decisions on. Anytime anyone puts all of their eggs in one basket, it blows up in their face. In putting all of your faith in Russia, you’re putting Armenia in the same danger Saakashvili put his country in when he relied too much on the West and miscalculated their intentions. Being too close knit with one side over another is extremely dangerous, especially for a vulnerable country like Armenia that to this day, still hasn’t gotten its act together thanks to people like you who insist we can’t do anything and therefore starting giving up everything we own so someone might be nice and coddle us. Your mindset is part of the reason Armenia is in the bleakness it’s in right now. I seriously hope this attitude disappears in the coming generations.

          • Sarkis said:

            If he posts it left and right it is because it is an important point that bears repeating. We can’t all be as “creative” as you, coming up with new personal insults in every comment you post, and rehashing things you read on hetq.am and lragir.

            Let me save you the trouble of responding “Russia bad, NATO good. Nothing personal against Russians I have many Jewish relatives in Moscow….”

          • Armenian said:

            Ha! So because I have negative things to say about the way some of the things are done in Russia, it automatically implies that my relatives are 1.) Jewish, and 2.) my comments are based on racism? Talk about ignorant. What the hell kind of world do you live in? You made a whole bunch of personal assumptions about friends and family without even knowing anything about me. And no, I don’t have anything personal against Russians because unlike you, I can distinguish people from their governments.

            If you had the capacity to see, read and understand things, I have never argued for a world as black and white as yours. Ever. You are completely taking my arguments and twisting them with your straw-man responses. Pat yourself on the back, you’re doing a “brilliant” job.

          • Armenian said:

            I hope people can understand that your hasty conclusions about my personal life and the people in it are just as black and white, unreliable and illogical as your comprehension of geopolitics. I don’t need to talk to anyone who makes personal assumptions about the composition of one’s family, religious background and personal sentiments based on opinions they may hold. Your comments are far beyond acceptable, and you are a completely ignorant/illiterate idiot who is not worth a second of my time.

          • Sarkis said:

            I think the only “completely ignorant/illiterate idiot” here is you, posting the vilest falsifications about Armenia and Armenians and then getting self-righteous and resorting to personal attacks when true nationalists call you out on it.

            And I seem to have hit a raw nerve regarding your background, I suspect my educated guess was right on target.

          • Armenian said:

            Except you’re not. I’m completely Armenian and I don’t have anything to prove, especially to a simpleton like you whose compartmentalized people with differing opinions as being “non-Armenian” and from different ethnic and or religious camps.

            It struck a nerve because I’m saddened that such ignorance and stupidity exists in among some Armenians, that the only way they can justify their lack of fervent love for Russia is by not being Armenian. Get lost.

          • Sarkis said:

            Listen otar, I don’t “compartmentalize” anybody, I simply point out people who call Armenia a “worthless laughing stock” and expose them for being bigots. Save your Armenophobia for Turkish and Azeri audiences, you’ll fine no sympathy here.

            Self-righteous hypocrites like you always act “saddened” when their lies are exposed and no one comes to their aid. Where was this supposed feeling of sadness when you wrote you hope Armenia gets “trampled on”?

            I’m not going anywhere until all of Asbarez’s audience sees through your filthy comments, Or until you repent for your blasphemy against my people and my fatherland.

          • Armenian Christian said:

            How can we ever take anything back from turks if we cant get along with each other?? You two either get a room or get along together amota…

      • Armenian said:

        It already has. The Russophiles have already signed away our future and ability to make our own decisions for ourselves for the next 30 years. Luckily for us, they’re waiting to give more. You just say the word, Russia!

  2. Aram said:

    . The message is quite blunt. Armenia equivocates in her choice of association with the CU. In the message Armenia should have elected to be embraced by the EU. That would indeed have been a veritable tragedy, to join a club of corrupted officials and corrupted institutions posing as a beacon of democracy , social progress and an economic affluence mirage. The EU is politically, socially and demographically unravelling, it is an unworkable proposition, yet the author bets on our association within it. Armenia in the EU would suffer a worse fate than that of Greece . Why is Russia supplying arms to Azerbaijan? As long as Russia supplies Armenia with necessary weaponry for her defense, what she does with Azerbaijan it is another matter .After all Israel is arming Azerbaijan with the technology and other war material, far more deadly than what the Russians are selling. The EU enjoys a very close association with Turkey, a member of the American led criminal Inc. NATO. America also supplies arms to Azerbaijan in exchange for Petro dollars. I do not know much about animal husbandry, nor of ham and eggs, but I know that Armenian destiny is bound to its geography, and we must keep close to our orthodox partners Russia. Diasporan armenians should internalize this fact and stop blowing the bugles for the EU and America.

    • Armenian said:

      I wish I could see the look on your face when Armenia gets trampled on by Russia the moment Azerbaijan can lure it into something more lucrative. People like you are so quick to sell our country out to Russia– anything for the quick fix as long as we control less and less of our land for the false promise of “security”. You need to wake up and realize that you can never truly put your faith in any one country. I’m astonished by how many times Armenians will continue to make the same mistake. The last time around, we had put all of our faith in Europe, and then what happened? We got let down because they didn’t bother to make sure that we got our lands. Then the USSR came along, and the we were powerless, then what happened? Our lands got literally signed away to Turkey. Armenia loses big time when it is completely powerless, and you and your buddies have done everything in their power to make sure Russia dominates Armenia in every way, shape, and form. For the next 40 years, we have will be at the mercy of Russia, and you can bet something bad is going to happen to us because we not only respect ourselves, but we are so broken as a people that all we’re looking for is someone to leech off of.

      Wake up and smell the roses. This isn’t WWI anymore; the world doesn’t revolve around religious alliances and “Orthodox Brotherhoods”. That’s all a bunch of idiotic romanticism that everyone in the Ra-Ra-Russia crowd seems to be propelling. Things can change in Russia overnight. Why is it that nobody in Russia considers the “Orthodox Brotherhood” when their skinheads are beating innocent Armenian and Caucasians’ heads to the ground? Russia has spat on us over and over again, yet you and a very significant amount of other Armenians insist that our role in the world is that of a parasite, looking for a nice host from which we live.

      Grow up and snap into reality. If we can take care of ourselves, nobody will. Not the EU, not the CU, not anyone. With the CU, we’ll already be on the road to our demise. Injustice and corruption will explode and many Armenians will leave in numbers much larger than before. An Armenia without Armenians is not Armenia. Get that through your head.

      • jerry sabounjian said:

        I don’t think you have any understanding of geopolitics, therefore I suggest you refrain from making comments like this.

        • Avetis said:

          I don’t think the author of this article or even the administer of this website have any understanding of geopolitics either.

        • Armenian said:

          You’re right. Let’s keep giving to Russia and getting little back in return. Sorry, I’ll refrain from thinking now.

      • Sarkis said:

        “I wish I could see the look on your face when Armenia gets trampled on”

        Spoken like a true Turk!

        • Armenian said:

          No, a “true Turk” is the one who wants to see Armenians have absolutely no control of their country, and an Armenia empty of Armenians; one that is constantly at the foot of the oppressor, and one that will never realize its true potential.

          • Sarkis said:

            No, you try to cloak your hatred of Armenia behind convoluted ideological excuses, but you cannot hide your deep-down desire to see Armenia destroyed just so you can say “see, I told you so”. It’s pathetic, I suspect if you really are of even partial Armenian heritage that you have a severe hatred for yourself, your race and your homeland. You are projecting your own failures onto the Republic of Armenia or the Russian Federation rather than facing yourself, or reality in a mirror. It’s a poisonous mentality to have, please do everyone a favor and go get some psychological help… Unless you are just some paid US agent, which is also a very strong possibility given the way you insert yourself into these articles.

            Whatever the case is, please don’t go on Armenian forums expressing your wish to see Armenia get trampled, or how Armenians are a worthless laughing stock.

            As for the turks, they want to see Armenia without Russian protection so they can finish the genocide with their arsenal of made in USA and made in Israel, paid for by NATO weaponry. But you already know that, I am merely writing for any curious readers that may be here.

          • Armenian said:

            So because I don’t think like you, that means I hate Armenia and want to see it destroyed? I don’t want that and I’m sorry that you have a comprehension problem because you clearly don’t understand what I’ve been saying. If you read anything I’ve been writing this whole time, I, unlike you, have been saying that Armenians are an incredibly smart, talented and hardworking people if they are given the right opportunities to succeed in their homeland. My criticisms are for people like you, and HHK; people who have completely given up hope and have unilaterally decided that “Armenians can’t govern their nation” so the best thing to do is to give it to someone else, little by little, so that we have no say in any of our own decisions and cannot make deals with nations who mighj. You have no right to make that decision on my behalf, or any capable, able-bodied and mentally devoted person willing to put the effort into making Armenia a better place so that 40% of its people don’t envision their future outside of its borders, for that matter.

            The only failure here is you, who has decided that as a nation, we are incapable of doing anything, and deem anything that might be aimed at fixing Armenia from the inside as a “western threat” and an attempt at creating instability in Armenia. Your arguments are based on nothing more than fear, not realizing our worth as a nation and our potential to manipulate the cards to our advantage by being smart and not kissing any nation’s ass. Unlike you, I want to see Armenia’s future as that of a promising country that utilizes its potential and intellect realized INSIDE of Armenia, instead of sending its future to Russia to build nifty apartment buildings with the prospects of maybe potentially getting paid sometime down the line (if the authorities in Russia feel like paying their employees for that month). I’d prefer to see Armenians being successful in Armenia because their well-being is protected by the law, and their thoughts and opinions are respected by the leaders who were actually elected to serve the people. I don’t want to see an Armenia whose leaders travel to Russia on “official visits” every other week to take orders from Putin instead of listening to the people who are literally begging for change. Unlike you, I don’t think our salvation lies in the hands of some other nation, and I’m not willing to sit my hands, hoping that “Orthodox Brother Russia” will take good care of me.

            Moreover, I don’t know who you think you are, but you have absolutely no right to speak like that to me or question my heritage in the way you do. Learn some manners and learn to respect the opinions of people who would rather take Armenia’s future into their own hands instead of lining up to kiss the shoes of those who could potentially knock your teeth out in the process. I have never question your patriotism despite the incredibly stupid, unrealistic, half-baked and khekhchatsats things you propose on our behalf.

            If anything, advocating that the answer to our problem is aligning ourselves completely (mentally, emotionally, politically, economically) with a large part of the problem, is more likely to bring about the destruction of Armenia. Half a million Armenians have already left Armenia, and the rest are either too poor to leave, or getting ready to do so. Our population shrinks by 1% every year. Nothing is being done to address any of the social plight, and while HHK grasps its reign on power, people are becoming poorer and poor. The poverty level is near 40%. Yet here you are, arguing for more of the same because you doubt the Armenians’ abilities as a nation and as a people who are capable of being politically apt.

            The numbers and statistics prove that your approach, which has continued now for almost ten years, is slowly leading to the death of our nation, yet here you are, saying that I want to destroy Armenia.

            Forgive me, but I want to see Armenia’s future as that of a country that utilizes its potential and is robust both internally and externally. You’re not going to do that by sending 50% of your people to Russia, and building an economy on remittances. Unlike you, I’d like to see Armenians taking the initiative in securing the well-being of their country, not gambling its future for Russia and equating our existence with that of a doormat for Russia.

          • Sarkis said:

            “So because I don’t think like you, that means I hate Armenia and want to see it destroyed”

            -No, please stop misrepresenting my statements and presenting straw-man arguments. You hate Armenia and want to see it destroyed because, well, you stated many times you can’t wait to see Armenia destroyed. Shall we look at your “Hall of Shame” quotes:

            -”When Russia takes a massive crap on us” (February 19, 2014 at 6:37 pm)

            -“I wish I could see the look on your face when Armenia gets trampled on” (February 11, 2014 at 9:46 am)

            -”Your head is so far up Russia’s ass” (February 21, 2014 at 2:10 pm)

            -”We are literally the laughingstock of the region” (February 13, 2014 at 1:31 pm)

            -”Armenia’s inability to produce anything of value to the rest of the world” (February 13, 2014 at 1:31 pm)

            Unlike you, if I thought there was a shift in the positions of Russia and the positions of the US/EU/NATO towards Armenia, I’d shift to a pro-west policy, because my ideas are based on Armenia Uber Alles. You, on the other hand, have unambiguously and most definitely stated several times that you’d rather see Armenia subjected to Genocide instead of prosper in alliance with Russia and under Russian protection. That, comrade, is where your policy and the policy of Turkey and Azerbaijan match 100%.

          • Armenian said:

            Bravo. Half of the things taken from there are completely out of context. Then you talk about straw-man arguments. Talk about irony…

          • Sarkis said:

            Unfortunately for you the examples I provided are just a handful in a long line of garbage you’ve posted. Even if all of the examples above, instead of only half, were “out of context” as you claim, there is still more than enough to demonstrate that you are a psychologically damaged freak with a severe case of Armenophobia and Russophobia.

            Did you think you could spew out this crap on an Armenian forum without getting taken to task for it?

          • Armenian said:

            “. You, on the other hand, have unambiguously and most definitely stated several times that you’d rather see Armenia subjected to Genocide instead of prosper in alliance with Russia and under Russian protection.”

            Spoken like a true idiot. I never even expressed half of these statements, let alone insinuated them.

    • Armenian said:

      Not to mention that Armenians are not Orthodox, they are Apostolic Christians…

      • Gabe Korajian said:

        Personal; attacks are very unproductive. For any discourse between opposing ideas to flourish, diverting from the main topic and restoring to personal attacks never serves the purpose in finding some solution to the sad state of affairs in Armenia.In the end, it is not how we feel about what someone says, it is the content that matters, either to criticize or support. As for my opinion of this article, I have not yet encounters an incidence where Maria has not been truthful. She is pragmatic, honest, rational, logical. a patriotic Armenian and a brave person; one who never hesitates to speak her mind by uncovering the hidden realities our country is facing. All the power to her, and to everyone who criticize the ideas and not the personality. ,

        • Armenian said:

          How is that a personal attack? Is it not true that Armenians are Apostolic Christians and Russians are Orthodox? Nonetheless, it’s pretty evident given Russia’s relationship with Azerbaijan that all of that is complete romanticism and totally irrelevant when it comes to its geopolitical attitude towards others.

  3. Torkom said:

    Armenians are not fit to rule ourselves.. There is a serious disconnect between the diaspora and armenians in the homeland. It is understandable for western armenians having been indoctrinated in western institutions to view everything through western lenses. I agree with the contribution from Aram, the homeland is bound by our geographical position to form alliances or partnership with traditionally and historically Russia. It is a stupid argument to bring the beating of skin heads in Russia of some unsavory looking transvaucasians to support the russophobes attitude. Russia is not made up by skin heads. The homeland armenians will stand fast with Russia, Russia is our strategic partner and we shall prevail against the enemy alongside our Russian partners. Western armenians, diasporan armenians have their own agenda and it does not coincide with Armenian national interests. Diasporan armenians will not rule Armenia through the distance. Armenia within the western orbit will cease to exist as a sovereign nation, she will become a Turkish province, an EU hamlet, the demographics in the region put a serious question as Armenian viability to survive as an Armenian state. Surrounded by Muslims, genocidal Turks who can not wait for an opportunity to finish the job started a century ago, wether we like it or not Russian friendship and military alliance is our only support base to continue enduring . Armenian geopolitical interests dictate that a common border with Russia should be a primary goal.

    • Avetis said:

      Bravo Torkom. One of those with a Western/Diasporan agenda is this very website.

    • Armenian said:

      So because you think Armenians can’t govern themselves, the best thing to do is to sell out all of the other Armenians who think they can; close up shop and sell ourselves to the highest bidder? Armenia is not a lost cause, and this negative, pessimistic attitude towards our abilities as a people only contributes to the desolation. We haven’t been able to do much because so many Armenians are full of pessimism, and can’t accept that we can control ourselves if we had the right mindset. If you don’t think Armenians can’t govern themselves, then you’re more than welcome not to take part in anything related to Armenia.

      As far as diasporans go, I think you should ask the common person in Armenia what good has come out of literally selling everything the government owns to Russia. I have family in Armenia and I can tell you that the closer Armenia has moved to Russia, the worse peoples’ lives have gotten. You don’t even need to live in Armenia to know that Russia having the power to sell Armenia’s gas reserves without its permission is extremely dangerous, and depriving it from making its own decisions for the next 30 years is equivalent to the defecating on our sovereignty. Even if the Russians are friendly now, you don’t know what could happen 10 years down the line, and you can never be completely sure Russia won’t sell our gas supplies to the wrong country in order to “put us in our place”. It is bothersome that the Armenian President has conferred more from Putin about what is acceptable and what is not than he has to his own people. The people of Armenia are completely removed from the equation and the government is being run by a bunch of backwards goons who don’t even feel the need to answer to the people. Armenia cannot govern itself if it continues to be run by people who are supported by Russia, and who destroy their countries from within so that Russia can prosper.

      I agree. Armenia needs Russia, but what the hysteric Kremlin fans have done is neglect that Russia needs Armenia as well. This type of surrender attitude has contributed to us being in this incredibly unfortunate position of desolation. “We can’t” has made us overlook our assets to Russia, and allowed them to coerce us into giving up so much for virtually nothing in return.

      And enough with this garbage about a common border with Russia. How are you going to get a common border with Russia? By destroying our relationship with Georgia and isolating our country even further? I get accused of not knowing what I’m talking about, yet here people are, talking about nonsensical fantasies like cutting up other countries so we can crawl further into the dark for Russia’s sake. Do you realize how incredibly unrealistic that is? Not only that, but it’s immoral to do that as well. Why should we damage our relationship with Georgia for one country and one country alone? Not only are you putting all of your eggs into one basket, you’re pretty much saying that we should count all of our chickens before they hatch and act out in an incredibly irrational matter. Do you think cutting up Georgia isn’t going to put Armenia in much further danger? The Turks and Azeris will use that not only as an opportunity to attack, but they will create an even greater atmosphere of hatred and disconnect in Georgia towards Armenians than exists in their own countries.

      Also, I brought up the example of skinheads and their constant ability to miraculously escape justice to illustrate that Russians are not as infatuated and weakened in the knees as Armenians are towards Russians. I mentioned that to show that neither the Russian government, nor Russian society acts on this nonsense notion of “Orthodox Brotherhood”.

      • Hratch said:

        Verj well well said. We are weak and our weakness is the inability to see what is wrong with us and our approach to national salvation.

        • Armenian said:

          “National salvation” is not servitude and selling yourself completely to another party who is ready and willing to destroy you for its own interests. Self dependence is national salvation, something that seems to make you extremely uncomfortable.

    • hye said:

      Torkom, Armenians had great leaders, those leaders were killed(by being invited to their countries) by Persians, Greeks, and your friends Russians(if you read the history). How is it that Armenians succeed when they are in a different country other than Armenia? Also, can you please explain handing of Kars keys to turks.

      • Armenian said:

        Exactly my point. Garegin Njhdeh is a perfect example of what we can achieve when we allow leaders who are driven, capable, willing and most importantly, nationalist, to take the reigns of power and refuse to be passive in the face of potentially daunting consequences. Njhdeh was not a foreign agent like Serjik is, and he did what was in the best interest of Armenia and Armenia alone. Imagine if Garegin Njhdeh were like the (frighteningly) scary Russophiles who frequently comment here with their useless drivel about giving everything to Russia otherwise the sky will fall on us, condemning ourselves to permanent servitude. What if Njhdeh were like some of the people here so said, “we can’t do anything ourselves, let’s give it to Russia”. We would have no Zangezur today. Armenia’s map would have been strategically cut up to benefit the Russians, and many of our beloved brethren would have been thrilled about that. Some Armenians are better Russians than they are Armenians.

  4. Vahagn said:

    I watched with interest the comments-discussion here. Usually the pro-Russian move is coming from those natives of the Republic of Armenia who are still immersed in Russian influence, language and history, while the opposite views are coming from Western Armenians living in Europe and America Diasporas. Neither Russia nor the West are interested in a strong Armenia able to stand on her feet, rather just merely be able to walk with bare necessities of food and shelter is their aim/goal. Dependence on both of them is the name of the game –Independence by name but not in fact or actual independence are their rules of the game since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Was the empire of Tigran II the Great a curse or a blessing? It was a big curse because since then Roman Empire, the Muslim Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Persian Empires, the USA empire,and the Russian Empire were all wary of Armenia, wary of a strong Armenia, and as if all have conspired thru the ages to keep the nation of Armenia and Armenians weak and feeble; to keep the menace of Armenia and Armenians at bay; “hungry starving Armenians” is another label by them for us. So if you happen to meet Tigran II the Great in your way then by all means SHOOT him! Before the fall comes the pride, and this pride of Armenians will make of them extinct species on this earth. Armenia was made by the union of some 10 or more tribes in the region some 1000 or 800 or 600 years BC in order for those tribes to defend themselves by their unity against the attacking Assyrians from the south and the wild horsemen attacking Armenia from the north at the same time, this tribal union was an artificial one which, though it has survived up today, but Armenians are still and will be divided by heart and the comments-discussion hereis a fine example. When Armenians see God face to face someday, they will realize that they could have loved each other and others more on earth and there were not a need for them to be so cruel and hating to each other and to the others. Sad to say that is the reality of Armenians today and the saying that an Armenian is the worst enemy to another Armenian is still valid. Armenians do not have to look to Public-Enemies-Number-Ones outside of themselves since those Numbers-Ones are among them.

    • Armenian said:

      My point exactly. Armenians don’t need to be servants to the Russians nor the Americans. Democracy, justice and transparency are not “American values”, they are things that help build a stronger country. I am just as against being a servant to the West as I am to Russia.

  5. Gagik said:

    We armenians are our worst enemies. We can not agree amongst ourselves how best to serve our national interests. Rethorical questions are thrown hither and hither, where would zangezur be today, why the Russian gave up Kars, and other supposedly anti Armenian moves by the Russians. First of all we need to start from a point that Armenia way a Tsarist province, and the other side unde Turkish enslavement. Slavery under the Turks has implanted the slave mentality in western armenians. It is in our DNA. The Bolsheviks struck deals with ataturk when they lacked the military resources to defend the entire limits of Russian Armenia. However it was due to the support of the same Bolsheviks that Armenia was capable to vindicate her independence when the Turks were on the verge of eliminating the last traces of an Armenian homeland in the 1920. That is history,, however today armenians are privileged to be an equal strategic partner with Russia in the defense of Armenia and Armenian interests. Without Armenian partnership Russia’s position in the southern Caucasus becomes untenable, and geopolitical such a situation will pave the way for the turkification of the Transcaucasia , and the elimination of Armenia as a key factor in the security and stability of the region. Without Russia’s partnership, there is no independent Armenia. Turkey is a western proxy, and factor in the enlargement of NATO , America and Israel in controlling Transcaucasia The only hurdle along that route, the only stumbling bloc preventing such an expansion is the Russo Armenian alliance. Russophobes will always remain russophobes, there is nothing they can do to help that condition. They simply have to be kept with their Russophobia out of Armenian political arena. The West has done nothing to help us in our history in the past, and will do nothing in future to support our nationhood and homeland . Armenian nationhood is not part of the agenda in their drive for enlargement and capture of Transcaucasia.
    Thanks to Russian advance weaponry and technology, Armenian armed forces are a deterrent to the Turks . America and Israel keep arming the Azeries, and Turks, but the Turk will not move openly against Armenia because of the readiness of her armed forces and the presence of Russia in her territory. The next open conflict will break out in Transcaucasia, maps and border lines will be re drawn. Armenia should be ready to maximize her survival opportunities at the end of such a conflict.

    • hye said:

      Dear Gagik, we had a king Gagik centuries ago, he was invited to Greece and got imprisoned. He would be sad to know that Gagiks now days have such an opinion about the situation the Armenia is. Zangezur was kept thanks to Nzhdeh and he did not trust turks, nor the bolsheviks. And if we need to start, lets start from Tigran the Great, and not slave mentality of “Armenia was a Russian province”.

  6. Norin Radd said:

    Gagik, Torkom, and Sarkis, excellent points that show a deep understanding of geopolitics and real politik.

    “Hye”, “Armenian” and the rest of this ilk, back to the drawing boards for you! In an ideal world where more than half a dozen countries have the privilege being truly “sovereign” I’m sure every Armenian would like to see a truly independent Armenia without any political co-dependence. However, given the realities of the geopolitical stage at present time, we must work with our strategic allies and be aware of our strategic opponents instead of whining and moaning about the Russians.

    The rhetorical question for every Armenian to ponder is this, where would Armenia be today if the influences of Russia were swapped with equivalent Western influences from EU/US. The answer is there would be no Armenia, we would only see expanded Azerbaijan/Georgia under the umbrella of Turkish governorship under the halo of NATO. Essentially we would be the next Assyrians.

    So please, all Armenian political infants, get back to your cribs, it’s past your bedtime.

    • Armenian said:

      I’m starting to think the 6 or 7 Kremlin worshipers mentioned here is just one person “high-fiving” themselves in the guise of different names. If only Asbarez could confirm that…

      • Sarkis said:

        You are one bitter, messed up person. First you came onto this Armenian website and started to spew forth the most insulting, hate-filled, racist, Armenophobic and Russophobic comments I have ever seen outside of a Turkish or Azerbaijani forum, with essay after essay rehashing the black PR lies about Armenia that you got from Western-funded presstitutes so-called NGOs who target Armenia and the Armenian Diaspora with a well-funded and well-coordinated doom-and-gloom campaign.

        And when the true Armenian Nationalists who follow Asbarez saw your game, they decided to fight for Armenia and responded to your vicious attempts at denigrating Armenia in the eyes of Asbarez’s audience with your falsifications about the steadily-improving and developing Armenian socio-economic situation, your baseless allegations and paranoia about the rock-solid strategic alliance and brotherly relations between Republic of Armenia and the Russian Federation, and your twisted distortions of the real nature of the aggressive, imperial, expansionist and openly pro-Turkish and pro-Azeri nature of the American government and the dangers of the subversive social and economic programs that Western-imposed globalism poses for Armenia.

        And now that your arguments have been blown out of the water, you are left with no recourse except character assassinations, cheap shots like “Ra ra Russia cheerleaders” and “Russian fan girls” and idiotic conspiracy theories that it is only “one person” who exposed you for the Turkophilic Armenia-hater that you are. You just got a taste of what Armenian Nationalists are like: we may all have slight differences of opinion on minor issues but when we see a bigot like you attacking our Nation and its government and calling for Armenia “to get trampled on” we don’t hold back in calling you out and exposing you for what you are.

        ps Norin Radd, it is good to see you commenting here again. I always enjoyed reading your comments in the past. Here is a blog entry regarding geopolitics and Armenia, and calls for chaos and upheaval in Yerevan from a panel in Washington which sadly included several “Armenians” in its ranks:

        Panel Discussions Calling for Chaos in Armenia
        http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/2012/01/washington-sponsored-panel-discussions.html

      • Lus said:

        And you are a White House worshiper? There are no ‘kremlin worshipers’ here, there are people who have a realistic view of the geopolitical situation in the region. Armenia’s alliance with the Russian Federation keeps the turks and Zionists at bay… what makes me happy is that this alliance is so natural to the core and ‘nothing’ can shake it.

      • James said:

        You are no Armenian, this obvious by now. To compound this, your infantile understanding of geopolitics would lead Armenia to tragedy (read: Georgia). Except that unlike Georgia, we have to Turkic enemies on either side–one NATO power and another British-linked BP oil/gas power. Democratic reform is great but only to some extent. All political parties have called for closer ties with Russia. Even terrorist Levon Ter-Petrossian has agreed with Armenia’s accession to the CU; Raffi Hovanissian met with the Russian ambassador on numerous occassions during the elections of 2013. Corruption is the main issue to be tackled, NOT foreign policy. Now go and play with your central asian baboon brethren and leave us be, boy.

  7. Zareh said:

    If the US and NATO and EU can force Turkey to recognize the Genocide and compensate and restore Wilsonian Armenia then yes, Armenians can shift their orientation to the West but until then we will be on Russia’s side. We have no other options. I can not make it more explicit and simple than that.
    Until Turkey is transformed from within, which will never happen, Armenia’s fate is tied to Russia and Iran. I can not make it simpler than that.
    Armenia through history has always been a dependent state because of its small population and proximity to larger empires. Roman, Persian, Byzantine, Russian. As long as we have no outlet to the seas and oceans, as long as we are landlocked, as long as the population of Armenia is minuscule compared to its neighbors, as long as our army less powerful than our enemy’s then our fate is tied to Russia. It is as simple as that.
    I hate to say it but it was communist Russia that saved our existence from extinction from bloodthirsty.
    Long live Armeno-Russia-Persian vertical axis friendship.

    • James said:

      Bravo. Some people don’t understand basic geo-strategic alliances. When the West makes concrete concessions from which Armenia will derive a mutual benefit while also providing a benefit to the West, then and ONLY then can Armenia reorient its foreign policy.

  8. Jacque said:

    Wow what a conversation.
    First yes we Western Armenians have a different agenda.
    For those who don’t know yet it’s very simple and very important to the survival of our nation.
    It’s free independent and united Armenia.
    Is that such a terrible agenda?
    Please look into history you might learn something.
    Because of us in the west and those who believed In the homeland and sacrificed their lives. so Armenia today exists.
    Did you forget what Stalin did?
    Did you forget how Russia sold us out in karabagh?
    It’s shame that our leaders in Armenia , for their own benefit sold most of Armenia’s infrastructure to foreign states, yes shame , Armenia was built on the souls of millions of its people within the last thousand year.
    If you don’t believe in democracy then you don’t believe in the human free spirit, therefore you will always remain a slave. That’s not what we learned from “katch Vartan” and that’s not who we are as Armenians.
    If you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen and stop pretending that you know what you’re doing.
    First the protocols with turkey now this sell out to Russia and what’s next ?
    Give up karabagh because our strategic partner tells us to do it ?
    Russia is a dinosaur and dying we should not go down with her and isolate Armenia from the rest of the world.
    Nothing personal but I’m sick and tiered of us western Armenians being accused of having a different agenda.we payed the ultimate price twice and we are the ones who saved and protected the Armenian heritage and flag for 80 years we are the ones who paved the road politicly for Armenia all over the world .
    Armenia today would have not existed without us , yes you bet we have a big stake in what happens in Armenia and what road Armenia takes . We’re not the chicken we are the pig and we have 1.5 million souls to prove it.
    Before you point a finger , remember no one even new what or where Armenia is until the Armenians In the west and all over the world paved the way.

    • Armenian said:

      Amen. These accusations are from fanatic Kremlin fans who are themselves enacting Moscow’s policies among Armenians and dividing them so that Russia continues to have a monopoly on all things Armenia. The more Armenia is divided and separated from its diaspora, particularly in the West, the more Russia can fill the gaps in between.

      In addition to scare tactics, these individuals try to frighten many in Armenia by claiming that Western values like women’s rights, and tolerance for gays are “destructive” meanwhile totally ignoring the fact that Russia profits from and instigates a series of never-ending tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan, and creates a market for the consumption of military hardware and destructive artillery that could potentially be used to kill Armenians en masse.

      Gays and feminists are more of a threat than this perpetual state of “no war, no peace”, and the demand Russia has created for its military industrial complex in the South Caucasus will have far more devastating consequences than women getting legal protection or gays publicly walking down the street in Yerevan. Not to mention that the current grip Russia has on Armenia is contributing to our country’s total depopulation and movement of people to Russia’s peripheries.

  9. hidi said:

    ***** OK.., so lets see if Russia is going to explain why they are arming the Azerbaijanis with there so called latest crap weapons..? oh sure…, they have Armenia.s back… really…? if Armenians any where believe that., then they must thing the earth is square as well NOT..!!! . ( **** Long live free and strong Armenia…**** )

    • Hratch said:

      The Russians have us exactly where they want us. We trusted too much and gave too much and now the bear is hungry for more.

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