Bill Criminalizing Genocide Denial Passes French Parliament Committee

France's National Assembly

PARIS—The committee on constitutional law of the French National Assembly approved a draft bill on criminalizing the denial of the Armenian Genocide, reported freelance journalist Jean Eckian.

The bill introduced by Valerie Boyer and co-signed by 40 parliament members of the Union for a Popular Movement (UMP) and the New Center parties, levies a fine of 45,000 euros and a one year prison sentence for those who deny the Armenian Genocide.

The bill will now be sent to the entire National Assembly for a debate and vote.

“I hope that we will go to the end and that France will always be a country of human rights,” said Boyer.

The resolution amends the law on freedom of press so that racially motivated crimes are now punishable by law.

A similar bill was approved by the National Assembly on October 12, 2006. On May 4 the French Senate rejected the measure.


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    • Basil said:

      Obviously your understanding of history and law is a very good one, so I ask every reader to disregard the fact that freedom of speech does not necessarily include being allowed to insult someone (in some countries, that is actually a crime).
      Also, if someone has the good right to tell the French about freedom of speech, it is a convinced Turk. Because in Turkey, you can call Ataturk a dirty piglover and openly say that you think Allah is the retarded babyboy that came out of a relationship between a Taliban and a camel.

      This is what I love most about Turks. They only talk when they know that what comes out of their mouth will make them total hypocrits.

      • Alpay Ünlü said:

        From the Basil’s comments I see the pearls of European (!) culture coming out of his mouth as the prime examples of Armenian culture. Basil did you ever think on top of your tracherous back stabbing behaviour maybe the Turks didnt like your culture (-which you obviously loves to wash their mouths with calling other people piglovers, or prophets of the major books an offspring between Taliban and camel?) and therefore didnt want to live with you. Afterall it was Pax Ottomannia and you the bearers of such loathing mouthful civilized (!) culture did not fit well with the owners of the Empire.
        Remember your freedoms stop where others’ nose starts.
        Oh well I guess this is the Madison Square Garden of Turk bashing masturbating activity for Armenian low intelligentsia. That explains the language and hatred displayed here. Los Ypsa Loquator!

    • For Free Speech said:

      Free Speech certainly doesn’t mean justifying a genocide- Yes ,for Turks like you there can ‎be an excuse to committee a genocide (e.g, if a nation demands more right and even ‎impedance in its historic land!) . If for racist Turks like are for revolution and free speech and ‎human rights why did Turks start annihilating Armenians!‎

    • antranig said:

      mr. oguztolga, yeh for free speach! not like turkey’s penal code 301, you open your mouth you go to jail!!!!

  1. oguztolga said:

    Dear Member of French Parliement,

    French parliament’s commission on constitutional laws adopted bill introduced by Valerie Boyer and her colleagues on transposition of the right on struggle against racism and punishment of Armenian Genocide denial.

    The document envisages punishment for denying the fact of genocides adopted by law, the statement on parliament’s website says.

    The punishment supposes one year imprisonment or fine amounting to 45,000 euro for those who will challenge or extremely minimize the fact of the 1915 Armenian Genocide officially recognized by France on January 29, 2001.

    Let me ask you,why did you make French revolution in 1789?

    Wasn’t it for FREE SPEECH?

    1) Why was every single Ottoman official, incarcerated for war crimes during the nearly two-and-a-half years of the Malta Tribunals, finally acquitted?


    2) The “Sick Man of Europe” was on her knees, financially broke and depleted of manpower (thanks to German-directed military mobilization) and needed resources. Why would the empire choose this most inopportune time to target the Armenians, who made the financial wheels turn and were clearly a vital resource to the country?

    3) The “Sick Man of Europe” was on her knees, financially broke. Why would she spend a fortune on resettling the Armenians?

    If the idea was to wipe them out, why didn’t they massacre them on the spot, as the Armenians did with the Turks?

    4) Could the Ottoman Turks have the TECHNOLOGICAL capacity to carry out a government-sponsored genocide on such a grand scale?

    5) If the idea of the resettlement program was to subject the Armenians to a slow, genocidal death, why did so many Armenians survive?

    If there was a true government sponsored policy of extermination, why leave the barely-living starved alive? In short, it all boils down to: how could the great majority…one million out of less than one and a half million… have survived?

    6) Why then, would the Turks fool around by going through the musical chairs of separating the men (remember, the Armenians claim the men were largely unarmed)?

    Also, why were there supposedly so many orphans?

    If a government has in mind to wipe out a race, why leave so many children alive?

    The Armenians didn’t intend to leave the Turkish children alive.

    7) Hitler began by targeting the Jews in Berlin. Why were the Armenians in Istanbul and other cities of the West such as Izmir, left alone for the most part?

    The Armenians say this was because these cities were under too much foreign observation. However, the Ottomans were aware, after generations of being subjected to capitulations, that foreign posts were set up even in the distant corners of the empire… as readily under foreign observation.(American consuls of these out-of-the-way distant provinces, such as Leslie Davis [the genocide-proving “big gun” highlighted in the PBS pro-Armenian programs covered at this site], were among them. In addition, the missionaries were everywhere.)

    8) As a related point, “Talat Pasa allowed the American missionaries to do relief work among the Armenians, in spite of the fact that Turkey and the United States were on the opposing camps during the war.

    How many examples are there in history of a combatant country permitting the citizens of another country fighting in the other camp to stay, feed, cloth and educate the people it is accused of exterminating?

    9) The Armenian perspective never fails to offer the convictions Turkish courts laid out to their own officials immediately after the war, and the Sevres Treaty, which partly proclaimed a large chunk of Eastern Turkey to be part of Armenia.

    For a better proof of judging whether a genocide occurred, one must look at the Treaty of Leninakan (Gümrü) signed (December 3, 1920) by the Armenians and Turks, which closed the book on past ills, foregoing the issue of reparations.

    If the Armenians were truly outraged over the Turks’ Nazi-like evil campaign to exterminate them, how could they have agreed to such terms?

    “If the Ottoman Empire really did commit the crime of genocide from 1915-1919, as Armenians allege, then why would the newly established Armenia turn to the Ottoman Empire for help in 1918, 1919, or 1920?

    10) As yet another follow-up, why didn’t Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference, Boghos Nubar Pasha, mention the “genocide” in his January 30, 1919 letter to The Times of London?

    Oguz Tolga
    Founding Secretary General
    90 212 2432438
    90 532 616 41 73

    • Basil said:

      You are right. You poor poor Turks, everywhere you go, people blame you for things you never did. Armenians, accepted to be the natives in Asia Minor along with the Kurds and Assyriands, just played a cruel trick on you. They made that up to feel better and make people think worse of you. Of course barbarity and turkism (Barbarei und Türkei) have been synonyms in some countries for years now (Germany in my case), they wanted people to think even worse of you. You poor baby darlings, you were the real victims. Those 1 mil or so unarmed civilians mercilessly massacred the 20 mil or so Turkish majority and there was nothing you could do. Also they cooperated with the Russians and not a single one of them got killed, they all fled to Irevan (so called “Yerevan” or “Erebuni”, ridicolous) and killed billions of Azeris there.

      BUT THEN CAME OGUZ TOLGA: and what he said made everyone realize the hypocricy of all Armenians, because
      “For a better proof of judging whether a genocide occurred, one must look at the Treaty of Leninakan (Gümrü) signed (December 3, 1920) by the Armenians and Turks, which closed the book on past ills, foregoing the issue of reparations.”
      – Of course it was the Soviets who signed the treaty and not Armenians..

      BUT WHO CARES! Because Mr Tolga has got it right, when he says:

      “As yet another follow-up, why didn’t Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference, Boghos Nubar Pasha, mention the “genocide” in his January 30, 1919 letter to The Times of London?”
      – Obviously, because an Armenian didn’t mention the “genocide” when righting to a newspaper, it is all bogus.


      “Hitler began by targeting the Jews in Berlin. Why were the Armenians in Istanbul and other cities of the West such as Izmir, left alone for the most part?”
      – Since Hitler is a great role model for Mr. Tolge, his conclusion is that what Hitler did was right so why didn’t the Youngturks kill the Armenians in Constantinople? Istanbul did everything right, so obivously the right thing would be to kill the Armenians in the Capital. Ignore this, by the way:


      “If the idea of the resettlement program was to subject the Armenians to a slow, genocidal death, why did so many Armenians survive?”
      – Obviously none of the Armenians could have escaped, been hidden, fled to France, Lebanon or the Russian part of the Caucasus, so why did SO MANY Armenians survive??

      Also, why were there supposedly so many orphans?
      If a government has in mind to wipe out a race, why leave so many children alive?
      The Armenians didn’t intend to leave the Turkish children alive.
      – Armenians, being the evildoers, next to the jews!!!! and greeks and kurds and every other ethnicity that Turks dislike (FOR A GOOD REASON AS MR. TOLGA SHOWED US), are babymurderers. But thats not the point, lets make it clear that obviously you will kill babies in the desert after killing their parents, just to make sure that the whole race dies out. Also, you can easily differ Armenian orphans given to Kurds, which is why no Kurd or Turk in Turkey today has hidden Armenian ancestors.


      “The “Sick Man of Europe” was on her knees, financially broke and depleted of manpower (thanks to German-directed military mobilization) and needed resources. Why would the empire choose this most inopportune time to target the Armenians, who made the financial wheels turn and were clearly a vital resource to the country? / The “Sick Man of Europe” was on her knees, financially broke. Why would she spend a fortune on resettling the Armenians?”
      – Because obviously, a nationalist movement called the “YoungTURKS” is not bent on getting rid of an ethnicity that by no means can be integrated in their vision of Turkey. And obviously a time of war is the worst time to do this. Like 2005, with Turkey economy coming up is a much better date, right? Why not do it today? Also, it cost them billions of $$$ to get bandits and the military to kill people and raid villages, they had no gain of it and therefore Mr. Tolga is right!

      AND YOU ALSO HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF THIS: “Why was every single Ottoman official, incarcerated for war crimes during the nearly two-and-a-half years of the Malta Tribunals, finally acquitted?”
      – The answer can obviously not be looked up on Wikipedia, I can tell you that for sure. Don’t try!! Don’t bother.


      • Sako said:

        You, Basil, are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the laughs, makes it so much easier to digest tolga’s comment. (btw, see the irony in the word “digest”? I’m turning his excrement back into excrement)

    • Gary_S said:

      Why are there no Greeks, Armenians or Assryians in Turkey today? There were millions BEFORE 1915? Did they all decide to go live in the desert because they liked the desert?
      WHy do Greeks, Assryians, and Armenians ALL saying there was a genocide? Are they ALL lying and the Turks telling the truth? NO!!
      In regards to what you wrote above, 2 were hung for their genocide crimes. Second, in regards to the Malta Tribunals, they were released since the Turks took British hostages! Read Taner AKcam’s (a Turk) books about this! You DON’T KNOW YOU’RE OWN HISTORY! Shame

    • Krikor said:

      Where do i start to point out your misinformation.I will mention few here;just to show your shortcomings sir.The Gumru treaty was between Communist soviet Union(Stalin) and Turkey; whereas Soviets to appease Turkey gave someone Else’s (ARMENIAN) land to Turkey.
      Referring to technology etc.There are numerous telegrams between Turkish leaders and local governors instructing them how to deal with the Armenians as far as Aleppo and Damascus …
      Much before April 1915 there were numerous planned mass killings in Zeitoun and other towns in Anatolia. I encourage you to read Dr. Taner Akcam’s book(s) regarding the Armenian Genocide.You choose to read and repeat whatever your government tells you,oh btw, Turkey has one of the worst human rights records.Specially NO FREE SPEECH, and here you’re talking about French revolution…LMAO go check your government’s record..article 301..What a joke.You come out as a caricature person.Go read some real International documents ; then open your mouth and spew your lies here.You see we Armenians , we let you voice your opinion here no matter how wrong you are.Try and say something negative about Turkish government’s treatment of it’s minorities.Good luck

    • West Armenia said:

      Bal bla,‎ bla

      The mass killing of Armenians were mostly happening in historic Armenian ( not in ‎Diaspora)- therefore this would be wrong to compare Armenian Genocide with Jewish ‎holocaust- Nazis made the mass killing machinery of Turks perfect! ‎

      According to Nazis and Hitler Jews were happily living in city of Terezín (German name ‎Theresienstadt !) Beside this Nazi did allow thousands of Jews to immigrate/travel to ‎Switzerland and else where above all via Romania. And there were Jewish Zionist – admire of ‎fascism- who were cooperating with Italian fascism , like Zionist Ze’ev Jabotinsky — still all these and many similar facts ‎are no reason to deny Jewish Holocaust (The world “holocaust” being first used to describe ‎killings of Armenians in Adana by Turks! )‎

      Go get you life- If the killing machinery of young Turks were not stopped – There would be ‎no Armenia and Armenians in the region today! ‎

  2. Turk Propagandist Watch said:

    Dear Asbarez editor. Please do not post these long and difficult propagandist articles by “Oguz Tolga”. They are a waste of time and do not have any substance. This person is well known in forums as a copy-paste propagandist, and his posts are not opinions but copied anti-Armenian propaganda from Turkish fascist sites who are trying to bring harm to the Armenian Genocide recognition process. The only time he posts his opinion is in broken English with a hateful comment followed by hahahaha or hihihihihi. Please, do us all a favor and spare us this clown.

  3. MR.Ohannes said:

    MR. Tolga you must be a very angry man and it is not your fault, you did not learn
    or they did not teach you real history in Turkey from 1923 to 2011 and I don’t blame you for you ignorance,if I am in your place I will be very angery Turk too after all you are civilized European Turk.
    How Armenian’s
    ‘ blaming civilized TURKES with Genocide.but in reality you are a Mongol and if you
    like to come civilized and European learn history and accept the reality and the truth you
    have dark history and no one teach you no one talk to you about that dark history MrTolga
    just go search the history and find how many Armenian were living in Turky
    from 1875 to 1923 and the answer ? for you knowledge their was overe 3.500.0000 armenian living in their
    historice homeland from 1200BC to 1923 just ask yourself with happend for all this .
    Armenain people living more then 3000 years in Eastern Turky where they gone just ask yourself any human will pack and live his homeland after 3000 years. Mr. Tolga
    just go and ask what happend for all this Armenains where and how they not in their historic homeland
    i know you are a very educated person but a ignorant about Armenian history it is a shame
    MR. Ohannes Boghossian

  4. said:

    Free speech argument sounds silly here. Imagine a band of criminals breaks into somebody’s home and kills the entire family. They get caught later, go on trial and get their sentences. Do their children and grandchildren have the right to re-write history, use government sponsored propaganda machine to “overturn” that court decision by pouring money into a denial campaign?

    The current policies of Turkish state towards minorities, neighboring countries and political dissidents (Article 301, journalists in prisons, etc.) are strong proof that the Genocide continues. Convicted criminals do not have the right to continue their crimes!!

  5. Cyprus Belongs To Greece said:

    Dear genocidal Turk, Oguz Tolga, I don’t think any country in the world is in the need of lectures on free speech by Turks, thank you. Up until the 90’ies (1990’ies, not 1890’ies!) you were still denying the existence of a people called Kurds. And there are still Turkish so-called historians today who claim that they are really Turks.

    PS. How is the persecution of Orhan Pamuk going? Probably just a matter of time until he meets the same fate as Hrant Dink, don’t you think?

  6. H.D. said:

    This is first fo all the business of France and not racist Turks living in US or Anatolia

    Hrat Dink made attempts to use the right of free speech he was executed by ideologists like ‎‎?you! ?‎

    Go back To Turkey and take care of Kurds, since apparently the planed and systematic ‎annihilation of Armenians was not enough to create a Turkey only for Turks !‎

  7. Hamasdegh said:

    It is surprising to see how much “negative” effort Oguz Tolga has expanded to deal with the aftermath of a historical fact that people like me have paid a heavy price for as survivors or heirs to the survivors of the Armenian Genocide. The French have a saying that goes like this: “Il n’y a plus sourd que celui qui ne veut point entendre” ( i.e. no one is deafer than the one who does not wish to hear). But such people , whether they like it or not, can not be both deaf, blind and dumb at the same time not to see what is this denial doing to them as human beings.As an International Civil servant working in international organization I have met a lot of Turkish officials who knowing I was Armenian,evaded any contacts with me for fear of being embarassed on this issue. But sooner or later they realized they had to deal with me.So all this talk of negativism has to end before Turkey , and its citizens, can walk on this earth without having other people in the know looking at them with “pity” for what they are doing to themselves knowingly and unknowingly. It is a pity that people like Oguz Tolga want to continue to weigh down their children, and their future, with the judgment of the world , rather than coming to terms with the Armenian Genocide and its aftermath as a modern, sophisticated and progressive country. I for one will not forget, will not forgive and will not give up until justice and truth is established. And I am doing this to save Ogus Tolga and his likes from the evil and ghosts that are torturing them.

  8. vatche said:

    Hate speech is a symptom of all Genocide perpetrating groups..
    The denial and ridiculing of Genocide is hate speech.
    Accepting the historical facts as they stand, is the major test for Turkish evolution as a republic.

  9. Kima said:

    Turkey is far from understanding the concepts of “free speech” considering the fact that it is illegal under Turkish law to name the events as “genocide. Perhaps you may care to take a look into your own laws before you begin bashing France’s policies. And as far as Talat Pasha goes his disclosure about what went on in 1915 is more than sufficient, ” Turkey is taking advantage of the war in order to thoroughly liquidate (grundlich aufzaumen) its internal foes, i.e., the indigenous Christians, without being thereby disturbed by foreign intervention.” The Young Turks killed thousands of children and the mere fact that not all were exterminated doesn’t take away from the intention to do so. Turkey’s present day government may not be responsible for those horrific occurances but its unrelenting attempts in denying it may as well constitute acts of genocide. The facts both written and photographed are there leaving no room for discussion on whether or not it was a genocide.

  10. John Grigorian said:

    Dear (probably Turkish) friend
    your arguments are
    it is hard to call you friend, as your close ancestors annihilated most of my people. But the worst thing is that you act like nothing happened. Turkish can be my friend but this is terrible. There are enough proofs of this so please don’t whine about it, it did happen and that makes you guilty!
    But now, the reason why this act of the French Parliament is IMPORTANT is because, due to Turkish lobying, we were treated inequally. When for exampele Angela Merkel would say that the holocaust never took place, then whole the world would hate Merkel, and she would be unable to do any political job. But when George Bush denied the Armenian genocide, due to Turkish lobying in the American parliament, nobody reacted. We are tired of this injustice! Why does Turkey even have influence in our American Politics?
    And please accept the fact that this did took place. I know my great-great grandfathers belly was cut open and fed to the dogs. These stories are not made up.!

  11. Peter Megerdumian said:

    The Neo-Nazis have also made ridiculous claims denying the holocaust and Turks facist racists are just doing the same thing. Don’t forget that the Turkey and Germany were the Axis of Genocide. Killing people is not that hard. Many barbarians including the Mongol cousins of the Turks killed millons of civilians through their various invasions. The used various techniques of extermination. Forced death marches and night time raids on Armenian villages butchering them in their sleep worked effectively. The millons of bones that can easily be dug up in the Syrian desert are those of the Armenians who were forced on death marches. Killing woman , children , the frail and the sick is very easy and the Turks are very good at that. They currently are committing a genocide against the Kurds . France is sick and tired of these Turk criminal gangs destroying France.

  12. bigmoustache said:

    VIVE LA FRANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. hrair said:

    let me tell you mr. oguz tolga the turks committed the first genocide of this century, and you know it but you think by trying to decieve us by your nonsense writings will not justify the murder of babies, children, women and inocent men. what the turks did to the armenians,greeks ,kurks and other minorities was barbaric, that is why they equate turks with barbarians. just listen to your own people who are aware of the can never hide the truth, no matter what you do. again turks committed genocide against the armenians and other minorities. THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

  14. Steven Adelman said:

    I’m a rare native born American who has lived in Turkey and speaks Turkish. So I’m familiar with both cultures. My point here is that Turkey grossly overestimates its prowess and importance, and similarly underestimates those of the West and of Israel. A model example is today’s threat to France incited by Turkish outrage over its genocide bill. This delusional hubris underlies much of Turkey’s reckless behavior. From Americas perspective, poll after poll show that we loath Muslims, and overwhelmingly support Israel. One recent poll shows that 57% favor an Israeli strike on Iran while only 31% oppose. Of course Turks dismiss this as merely “Jewish control” of the media, the “purchase” of the Congress by “Jewish billionaires”, AIPAC, etc. This ego salving fairy tale presupposes that the 300 million citizens of the worlds greatest country are fools. But would one expect otherwise from these self-intoxicated Turks? Most Americans 10 years ago knew nothing and could care less about Turkey. Now the Turks are out performing their Muslim brothers on the hate lists of Americans. One Hurriyet columnist said right now we are in the “Golden Age of Turkish-American relations”. Life on Fantasy Island is a dream come true, Turks. But I assure that you once a Republican President takes power Turkish-American relations will be a nightmare come true.
    Also bragging aside, Turkey is a second rate country. Check out their GDP, science Nobel Prizes(zero), and Turkey’s mediocrity screams out at you.
    They are losing the US, after the expected euphoria of the “Arab Street” due to Jew hatred, the Arabs will say NO MORE YEARS, not 400 more years. Turkey is destroying itself.
    One more thing, Jews and Armenians are not only cultural cousins, but they are also genetic cousins (check Wikipedia). Jews should dump the Azeri Turks so that Armenia and Israel can actualize a relation intended by nature.

    • Alex Postallian said:

      turkeyn is trying to forget the stigma of WW1.OLD YELLOW STAIN,NOMER.beaten on two fronts,they grovelled,changed sides,from Axis,to Allies>Toppled camel attaturkey,took out their anger on the poor defenseless ARMENIAN WOMEN,CHILDREN,OLD PEOPLE known as the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.They never attack anyone their size,always 20 times smaller and defenseless.ALL TALK, no action.Lastly,their illiteratcy rate is 65%. OLD YELLOW STAIN

  15. Peter Megerdumian said:

    Israel should stop selling weapons to Turkey and the Azeris weapons if it wants friendship with the Armenians. What I warn Israel about is that Turkey could smuggle those weapons to enemies of Israel. The Islamists are talking over the entire Middle East and Turkey is next. Erdogan is an Islamist with a moderate label. If you notice, Erdogan’s wife wears Islamic garb and covers her head so tightly that you can’t even see her hair. Even Benezir Bhuto, the late prime minister of Pakistan dressed less conservatively and allowed parts of her hair to show .

  16. Ali said:

    Sarkozy, a Greek Jew masquerading as a Frenchman supported by nasty Armenian lobby is trying to make himself and his party important player in world affairs. Recently, he started to say nasty things about the English. Armenian genocide claim is false. Killings took place on both sides. It is most unfortunate that the Ottoman authorities reacted harshly to the Armenian rapes and massacres not only of Turkish civilians but Muslim civilians in general in years leading up to 1915. Half truths expounded by the Armenian lobbies in US and France are worse than lies. Let us create peace and love now and stop bringing past half truths into our presence.

    • Lily said:

      So let me ask you a question, so if someone raped your mother? Killed your father right in front of you? Stole your home or your ipod you think its cool? Just to let you know that’s how you sound like! Plus Sarkozy isn’t Jew he is Greek/ Italian. Get a book on his bio not wiki it! Also, The Armenian Genocide has happened in there is to much prove, but there are just to many ignorant people like you who don’t see it. Plus, I’d like to add that I had my great great grandfather slaughtered front of him home and I will never forget that and will never forgive any turk in my life and will teach my kids that too.

      • Ali said:

        Well, Lily, you said it all and thanks for correcting me. There is a distict difference between us. You are full of hate, I am not. Despite what Armenians may have done one hundred years ago, I like Armenians. Attended school with Armenian boys and was friends with one of them. Just because some Ottomans may have done bad things, we should not blame and hate the present day Turkish people. According to international observers, Armenians committed atrocities in Nogorno Karabakh but I would not dream of condemning all Armenians in the world. Peace be with you.

  17. Ali said:

    Is Orhan Dink, brother of Hrant Dink, opposing the French genocide bill to make his life comfortable in Turkey?

    We know many innocent Armenians suffered and died in the hands of Ottoman authorities. Why deny it?
    The question is, can it be classified as ‘genocide’?

  18. Kürşad Alptekin said:

    go go armenians

    who can stop you from going over the injustice you were exposed to in the past

    but a little advice from a Turk whom most probably you would like to hang or torture or stab a knife through the chest:

    try not to turn out to be hatred generators while trying to retaliate. otherwise you might find yourself at the seat of ur enemy all of a sudden. I honestly dont see any practical difference between your attitude towards Turkey and that of Taliban against USA and West

    you might accept me as a traitor who wishes goodwill for everyone

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