ANKARA (Combined Sources)—Turkish President Abdullah Gul revealed Tuesday that Turkey and Russia have been engaged in closed-door discussions concerning Armenia since Ankara and Yerevan signed the Turkey-Armenia protocols in October.
Gul made the revelation during an interview broadcast on CNN Turk. He stated that “silent, yet very active diplomacy” has been occurring between Turkey and Russia, focusing on a political settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.
“While we are raising the frozen conflicts, making the process open would only complicate it,” Gul told CNN Turk, explaining why details of the discussions are being kept under wraps.
Meanwhile, Today’s Zaman Reported Wednesday that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and up to eight Cabinet ministers will visit Russia on January 12-13 for talks expected to focus on the process of rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia and greater Russian involvement in an oil pipeline linking Turkey’s southern and northern coasts.
this can’t be a good thing for armenias. Anytime turks and russians get close, aremenia ends up loosing
What is going on? The turks have fooled the Americans all along and now they want to fool the Russians! Siktir to turks…
Who is he cheating . Will Russia let the Turkic nations unite and thus treatining its own existance
Russians will pursue their own agenda. Armenians have to trust themselves only. We hope Armenia is not forced by Russia to capitulate in Karabakh issue, as they did in Genocide issue.
Why is Armenia is silent ? There are so many issues that Turkey can be found in fault, No 1 must recognise the Armenian genocide before signing any protocol must return all Armenian lands to the Armenians, get out of Cypress, recognize Kurdish rights in Turkey, why our leaders are not pressing this issues on table, Armenian government instead of sitting and watching Turks winding around to suppress Armenia threatening about the protocol and gharabakh issue, I don’t thing Gharabagh should be involve in this protocol, Gharabagh is ours and it will stay ours.
Remember the turks remain turks as always. As always they will lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder & etc! And still turks want to join the European Union, the civilized world! The turks must be kidding and dreaming!
there has been no secret talks and this is a ploy from them to make us feel insecure this is a negotiation technique to get what they want its only words to manipulate the Armenian government and the people to panic. to taunt us, its the way they keep digging the issue to wear us out the wear all the parties involved out they have no power other than manipulation but its not something to worry or act on they want us to react and worry and fight. no we have the international law on our side so they are just running their mouth to hurt us that’s all finally and defiantly we are the winners in this they know this by the way. but they have to do this to save face so they can say they are actually important or are doing something to resolve situations. and of course they are calling this diplomacy but its just a Turkish way of negotiating they have nothing its a bluff. we are very very important here, and our people and our country and its location they know this too. they are undermining us to also make the genocide insignificant another technique, like you know these people are unimportant and their country and so its not important that we murdered them come on now we are important and we have the goods they have nothing we have the power the whatever they are saying we are important, so your genocide is not important and nether is your lands and your government or Karabgh its all us you don’t matter, like that, and poor Armenia is maybe hopefully not buying into this. we have all the power all the goods actually we do, the genocide and our lands and the importance of our location is and people is whats going on, the pipeline the money the so called Turkish power is not important enough to the big powers, only the politicking . when the important people sit for a meeting they don’t even care about Turkey, they counting on human and civilized beings and a civilized government not them otherwise they would have been in the European Union long time ago, they are just tolerating them. and doing what they can to keep them out of the way. and that’s basically what we have to do. they actually have no choice but to open the border, they have no say so in it and i don’t want it open just yet but that’s different issue. see we can have whatever we want now, if they don’t they know Obama is ready and very willing to recognize the Genocide and make them pay for it. yeah thats on the table, and they know this too. and the wise guys are trying to get whatever they can even though they know they can’t out of it. but Karabagh is out of the question they have been told this and that will not change but they keep pushing, but see there is a time and limit to it that inested of wearing us and the others out they will loose credibility, so we hope they keep talking this way more and more and often. sit back and expect more and more ploys.
You are right on, you understand the Turkish mentality and way of doing business so well. If they are having secret negotiations with the Russians, then why don’t they keep it a secret.
we are forgething that Russia was our enemy also
May they all go to Jahenem and quickly.
My poor Armenia and Karabagh, what is to become of you? These two are both using Karabagh as a TRUMP card in this pipelinestan game. God save Armenia.
This can’t be a good thing for the West either. They were relying on Turkey to provide the alternate gas route in order to counteract Russia’s monopoly. We Armenians can use this to our advantage and convince the US that Turkey is not a reliable ally, so the US should stop giving in to Turkish demands and blackmail.
I think we Armenians should learn to take any situation, no matter how bad it is, and turn it around and use it to our advantage. This is one example.
I will telling you exactly what is going on. They are horse trading. Turkey will recognize Abkhazia and Ossetia as independent. turkey will support Russia in its drive to make Georgia a protectorate like Armenia. In the ensueing chaos, Ajaria will be occupied by Turkish troops as it has a right to protect it and will never leave effectively making it part of Turkey. Meskhetian turks will be settled in Javakh as has already been decided and the Armenian population driven out. The Azeri populated land of Georgia will join Azerbaijan thus completing the encirclement of Armenia with the barbarians. Armenia will be dependent on turkish and Azeri goodwill for food to enter the country.
The second part of the equation is even worse. All central asian and Azeri natural gas and oil will go thru Russia. Russia will be able to control the price of gas to Europe potentially making 100’s of billions more in profits. And for this, Armenia will lose territory. Turkey will be in control of the UN security council in June. Azeribaijan will get the go ahead to invade Artsakh and Armenia. Russia will back up azeribaijan and turkey on the political front at the UN and elsewhere, afterall Azeris are taking back what they and the world consider theirs. Azeris will also take lake Sevan and all of Zangezur. The azeri armed forces have overwhelming equipment and manpower and nothing like the army of attrition they were 17 years ago. They are an army of manuever. Serge and Nalbandian will sign a final peace treaty recognizing the return of the historically Azeri lands of Zangezur and lake Sevan(in turkish eyes its theirs). Armenia will be left with around 6,000 sq. miles with only two neighbors turkey and azerbaijan. Russians will still maintain their control over the railways and production of electricity. All their investments will be safe. Europe will not say a thing because the Russians would remind them where their fuel is coming from.
Turks and Azeris will start to enter Armenia because of the protocols and start businesses, marry Armenian women have children dilute the Armenian population and in a short period of time “Armenia” will have a turkish majority. Dont think this is possible? That’s fine with me. Let’s just see what happens. Ever believed the Soviet Union would collapse? What makes you think Armenia cant be devoured for the sake of money? The only thing that can be done is to minimize the turkish infiltration of Armenia.
Regardless of this doomsday scenario, the protocols will allow turks as I have said before, to come into Armenia invest, control Armenian employment and the means of production, marry Armenian women, become citizens and thus, slowly but surely turkify Armenia. If we allow either of these senarios to occur we deserve not to exist as a people. I believe there are solutions to stopping the turkification of Armenia. But our worst enemies are Armenians who get involved in Armenian affairs when they have no business doing so, the turk culture loving, protocol cheerleaders, self loathing Armenians that see any attempt to protecting the Armenian ethnos from total destruction as somehow an endeavor that should not be undertaken, that it would be foolish to fight for survival and that asimilating is the best coarse of action. The most favorite Armenian word is no. This is a psychological relic from being under the ottoman boot for 400 years. The worst offenders are the turkish culture lovers from Bourj Hammoud and elsewhere. More turkish than Armenian they sympathize with the oppressor in a demented way something akin to the “stockholm syndrome” and having a foot in both worlds decidedly make sure Armenian national progress is not made. When will true Armenians realize that the anti Armenianism Armenians dont deserve a place at the table? They must be made irrelevant and ignored, otherwise we can not save ourselves from the turkish and Azeri barbarians.
It was never good for Armenia. Turkey covering so much larger land and haveing a larger population (market) will always have more to offer Russia than Armenia even when Armenia is important for Russia’s presence in the Caucusus. The AKP has really turned on a lot of Turkey’s potential over the past years and thus has more influence.
I don’t think they’re trying to fool the Russians, they’re making a deal with them. Putin and Medvedev are the types you can make dirty deals with. Turkey will always try and fool Armenia and I’m not convinced those in power in Armenia are wise about it.
And remember, Karabagh is a bargaining chip for Russia. Small neighbouring countries at each other’s throats is always an opportunity for Russia for its own benefit. Never forget that.
If there where secret talks after there must have been BEFORE also… Things look pretty ugly…
In 1920 Lenin with Ataturk doomed us for over 75 years.
and Now Gul and Medvedev are planning for the same. They say history repeats itself.
Dear President Sarkissian, what do you think?
How much more of this kind of secret talks should go on before Serj Sargsyan and his smart foriegn minister realize that they (and thus the Armenian people) have been cheated again.
My dear people, please wake up (Zartir Lao mrnim kezi, sultan kooze gngel mezi).
I Think the Russians are not that stupid by having Chechnya on their own lap ignore the Islamic wave in the M. East; France; Sweden, Germany, England and the world in general, therefore they wouldn’t like and won’t let a combination of all those Moslem countries on their southern boarders; so I’m not worried about any secret or overt talks between those two countries.
Hye, the picture is not hopeless. We Armenians, small nation that we may be, but our citizens are highly educated… not like the Turkish villagers of today. Our brethern in Armenia will rise
up against the non-armenian Armenians… these self seeking elements who have become the
‘traitors’ of the Armenian nation. They shall not be able to face their own children – how shall they explain to them what their parents’ actions have done to the fledgling nation – Haiastan. Denying all the generations to follow… For shame, how do these elements sleep at night, how do these elements walk the streets of Armenia? Non-armenians… How shall they face the Armenian people – ever… Manooshag
Who are you talking about? Who are you shaming? Why you people cannot speak clearly, directly….
Besides, with out having any information what exactly Turks and Russians speak about, you all are in termoil already…and funny, each or you has his own opinion, which is not in agreement with anybody els…that’s what Armenian are: never together unated, just blame this Armenians that Armenians…stupid!
“They shall not be able to face their own children”
Twenty years from now their children will be safe and wealthy in switzerland sipping Armeno-turkish coffee and eating baklavah with their turkish friends while Armenia will be turkified completely. The wealthy or should I say those who have gained by economically destroying their ethnic brethren, have no nation.
But the people are hungry…… let them eat baklavah.
Does the French Revolution come to mind on how to handle our grave situation?
Tro, above, just like business, looking forward to problems cause they present opportunities,” this road is not straight or smooth, but we will get there!” Also Dino Ajemian, above, i also agree with you a 100% and the thing is we all can have a voice on the table we are not dead, its up to us to find a way, we have demonstrations and meetings and communication devices and we can make our leaders in this country listen as well as Armenia, we can come out again and again like a few months ago we can organize a new voice and communicate, who said they have to listen the first time or the tenth, we have to do it and say it a 100 times and a thousand times! yes! every day till they hear us or we find a way, no its not easy they don’t have to listen to us criticizing them we have to present the solutions, we have to find the right language the right mentality and the right avenue to communicate and connect no one else is going to do it for us.”yes, we can!”
Russians and Turks have never been enemies anyway … If anybody from us – Armenians , think that Russians ever supported Armenians , he (she) is fool …
Yet , one more proof of that supposed to happen one more time . So what ! Let it happen again ! Then , we will have a moral right to disregard Russian involvement in Armenian economy and just let them go forever . As lucky as Armenia , for not having a natural border with Russia (like other South Caucasus Republics) , we should aloud them to make such a mistake and betray us completely , once and forever … Then , and EU and USA , and what is more important – Armenia , would understand , that there is no more closer allies in the South Caucasus , than EU , USA and Armenia …
We MUST use our geographical advantage (no- joint-border-with-Russia) as a trump card in this kind of dirty oil/gas economical cynical game that Russians and Turks are playing with us …
How stupid?!!! Armenia is land luck country, and you are talking about advantage? of what? not having border with Russia? EU and USA are too far, Russia is close, and who are we? small as we are, to go against such a big nations like Russia? and who, if not Russians, are ever helped us? Iran or who? The only thing Armenian like you have is a big ego! based on nothing! not even funny!
Armenia became land locked after Russian “help” in any possible way , i.e. :
1. when they moved back their troops and aloud Turks to get in and infect people in 94 villages of Zangezur with syphilis ;
2. getting Armenians to starve – so they would recognise that only Russians can “help” them ;
3. allowing the massacres to happen in Baku and the rest of “Azerbadjzhan” ;
4. helping Turks with weapons and money , when Armenians needed that help , not Turks …
Any more samples of “help” needed ?
Our advantage in not having direct border with Russia makes us less CORRUPT , more INDEPENDENT and more FREE from russian domination of our minds … That’s for the FUTURE , if anybody can think so far away …